From drag queens to Netflix to registered therapy dogs to power tools, Canada's libraries offer patrons more than just books. We share some of the most exciting ways libraries are choosing to remain relevant.

In this month's episode, Athena McQueen tells us about her involvement with Drag Queen Storytime at Guelph Public Library, and OLA's Michelle Arbuckle talks about the importance of libraries and community outreach programs. Plus BookNet's Elizabeth Barker and Monique Mongeon share a little bit about our various library projects.

(Scroll down for a transcript of the conversation.)

Want to make sure you never miss an episode of the podcast? You can subscribe for free on iTunes, Stitcher, Pocket Casts, TuneIn, or SoundCloud.

To find out more about Athena McQueen's upcoming events, visit her Facebook page. And don't forget to check out OLA's Library Land Loves podcast!

For more information on BookNet's library services, click here.

Transcript

Kira: Welcome to the "BookNet Canada" podcast. I'm Kira Harkonen, BookNet's marketing associate.

Elizabeth: And I'm Elizabeth Barker, project coordinator at BookNet.

Kira: And for the first time on the podcast, we're going to talk about something very near and dear to our hearts, libraries. Elizabeth is also joining us on the podcast for the first time, and she's something of a library expert.

Elizabeth: Yes, somehow this happened, and it's amazing. So part of my role here is working on a library project known as Loan Stars. That's L-O-A-N, in case any of you are Googling it and are now looking at Texas-inspired food. Basically, just to give the very brief overview, we ask library staff across the country to vote for their favourite anticipated books, books that we believe should be in all Canadian libraries. And one of BookNet's industry tool's catalyst, which is basically publishers put up their digital catalogues that allows library users, retailers, media types, etc., to actually request advanced copies of these books well before pub date. So these tend to be actually fairly informed votes, and our top 10 list, which is generated each and every month, actually has some unexpected twists and turns and actually future award winners.

We have an infographic on that. It's kind of astounding. But basically, the name of the game is about discoverability, and that's both for library staff and patrons, which is why I have actually decided to take the Loan Star challenge, which is what I'm calling reading every single pick. And right now, I think we're at 280, and that's soon to be 290. So I'm booked.

Kira: And where you are, what number are you at .

Elizabeth: Eleven.

Kira: Yay.

Elizabeth: Some of them are series, to be fair. So I have to read all of the series. Like last month, the J.D. Robb, "Leverage in Death" made it, and that's number 47, and I've never read an Eve Dallas's book. So I've got some...

Kira: You've got a ways to go.

Elizabeth: I'll do it. I'm gonna climb that mountain.

Kira: I believe in you. I was actually quite surprised when I realised we hadn't done a library-focused podcast before, and that oversight actually inspired today's topic, which is why library should not be overlooked.

Elizabeth: It's nice to see the BookNet podcast's branching out.

Kira: That puns aside...

Elizabeth: It's an amazing pun.

Kira: Okay. That puns aside the importance of libraries cannot be stressed enough. I'm sure many of us remember going to the library as a kid, if not a public library, then a school library. And hopefully, many of our listeners are still dedicated library patrons well into adulthood. However, according to our consumer survey of the 81% of our respondents who had read a book in the last year, just under 50% of them had checked out a book, either print or digital from the library. That means 60% of Canadians did not. And while there is some bias in this data, that it only represents those Canadians who are willing to answer surveys, that is still a very large percentage.

Elizabeth: And many of those people who haven't been to the library recently are often surprised to learn that library systems have actually advanced beyond what they remember when they were kids. In fact, there are not actually a lot of VHSs or audiobook cassettes floating around anymore. All libraries offer something different to their communities, but it's well worth checking out at your local branch, if you haven't been for a while, so there's new things to see

Kira: Several major library systems across the country have partnered with Australian movie streaming service called Canopy, which is kind of like Netflix, and they offer access to everyone with a library card. There are over 30,000 titles to choose from, and you're allowed to watch eight movies per month, which boils down to two movies a week, or one every day for the first eight days of each month, if you possess the same lack of self-control that I do.

Elizabeth: I do not. And if you're out in West Vancouver near the Memorial library and you don't yet have unlimited movie access, they negotiate a deal with Netflix to allow library patrons access to this entire site. And, of course, many public libraries also have a collection of CDs, DVDs, Blue-rays, and, of course, there are some books.

Kira: There are tons of libraries adding to the list of perks that come with owning a library card. Many major cities across Canada and the U.S. offer patrons the option of visiting many major museums and cultural institutions for free using their library cards. The New York Public Library offers the library cardholders something called the Culture Pass, which grants you access to museums such as the MoMA and the Guggenheim for free. And then in Canada, the Toronto Public Library offers this kind of pass through a partnership with Sunlight Financial. It's called the Museum and Arts Pass Program or MAPP, for short.

Elizabeth: With two P's.

Kira: Two P's, yes. With this pass, you can visit attractions such as the Royal Ontario Museum, the Bata Shoe Museum, and even the Toronto Zoo. And the same thing exists in Vancouver, Victoria, Calgary, Ottawa, and many other cities. So do some research. It's usually under different names, but some variation of culture pass.

Elizabeth: Okay. I've definitely been calling it the Beta Shoe Museum, and I've actually been there. And also, in Toronto, I think they also give you access to the Toronto Star Archives, which goes all the way back. I found a crazy story about my great-grandmother, and they eloped, and there was a whole case about it. And they were sending money because they were in jail.

Kira: That's crazy.

Elizabeth: Yeah. She was 17. It was a bit of a scandal.

Kira: That's amazing.

Elizabeth: Like, they drew a picture of her, sorry, personal sideline. But you can also take courses on linda.com for free. So I think it shows that libraries sort of extend well beyond just entertainment and they do focus on enrichment and the welfare of their communities.

Kira: Exactly. There are libraries that offer all sorts of things beyond books, from fishing gear, power tools, to clothes, and even musical instruments, Yale students who visit the Lillian Goldman Law Library can even check out a registered therapy dog for a 30-minute petting session. His name is General Montgomery or Monty for short.

Elizabeth: Aww. I think he actually has like a BISAC code attached. Like, that is the weirdest checkout page I've ever seen. However, it is an adorable photo. So we encourage you to actually go and take a look at it.

Kira: Yeah. He's in the library catalogue.

Elizabeth: Oh, he's so cute. Do you think he actually lives in the library?

Kira: I have no idea.

Elizabeth: Oh my God, we should find that out. And actually, this is something that was really neat. And I think we posted about it the other day, but Toronto is being completely innovative and TPL is currently in the middle of writing a book. But they're not writing the book, they're getting Torontonians to write the book. So I think how it works is that every day someone adds a line and then they vote to see if this is where the story is going to go. And it's just, it's amazing. And I can't wait to see what the book actually turns out to be.

Kira: I think they, like, extended the project because, like, so many people are contributing...and there's like a poll, you vote for which line it's your favourite, and then...

Elizabeth: And it's every single day. Like, it's just...so I really wanna find...it's like a choose your own adventure, but maybe sadder because I think people don't always write happy, anyway.

Kira: Speaking of positive and unique ways to involve the community, in June, the Lunenburg Library in Nova Scotia was moving to a new location, which was 300 meters away from their old location. And so hundreds of people gathered to form a human book chain to begin the process of moving the library's collection of over 18,000 books. And the townspeople just got into a single file line where they're able to move close to 600 books on the first day. And to quote Lunenburg's mayor, Rachel Bailey, this kind of collaborative effort really speaks to the importance of libraries in our communities.

Elizabeth: It's an amazing video. Do you think we can do it in the office, like maybe just make a circle, and then we can just like lead it back to the bookshelves?

Kira: We don't have that many books.

Elizabeth: No, we don't. It'll just be the same book going around in the circle. But I mean, like, library initiatives like this and various community programs have just really taken off over the last little while, and libraries have remained as relevant and important as ever. For example, in Medicine Hat, their public library's number of programs has increased by 116% over the last two years, and attendance has increased by 54%. I mean, it's incredible.

Kira: I remember when I was a kid, the only library events I went to were book readings and weird puppet shows. Of course, I can still attend library events, but it would've been really cool to be able to go to things like Drag Queen Storytime when I was younger.

Elizabeth: Drag Queen Storytime, or as it's probably more commonly known for it's American name, which is Drag Queen Story Hour is actually a highly polarising event. It started in San Francisco by author and activist, Michelle Tea, that's T-E-A, and her literary nonprofit organisation, RADAR Productions. Drag Queen Story Hour now has chapters all over the world and is exactly what it sounds like. Drag queens visit public libraries, schools, bookstores, all over the place to read to children and teach them about acceptance, inclusion, the importance of individuality, and empathy. It's glamorous, positive, fun, and unabashedly queer.

Kira: Lucky for us. We had the chance to speak with Maya Hicks, also known as Athena McQueen, about her involvement with Drag Queen Storytime at the Guelph Public Library.

Maya: It was going viral around the internet. You know, I think it started in New York City, I believe. I could be wrong. So then I was approached by the Guelph Pride committee if I wanted to do it. I lost touch just for no bad reasons, just lost touch with the Guelph Pride committee, and I just sort of did it on my own after that. And yeah, so I just planned it with the Guelph Public Library kind of thing. It was awesome. I don't know how else to describe it. They loved it. It was very validating for me and slightly educational, and I think they all got something out of it. I asked them to give me an assortment to choose from, and they picked out some really good books for me. I read "I Am Jazz" by Jazz Jennings.

I can't remember any...but a lot of them were very much like books about being yourself or like a story about like a little boy who wants to wear a dress and gets bullied. Like, just sort of I always try to pick a story that's about diversity or being yourself in spite of adversity, sort of like also, it's okay for boys to be feminine and it's okay for girls to be masculine, and anything in-between sort of thing. Right? I definitely went to a lot of shows at the Guelph Public Library, and, you know, I'm performing in the same stage space that I went to growing up. So that's very cool. I think libraries are super important. I think they're cornerstone in every community, I get very frustrated by people who think libraries are irrelevant because they don't turn a profit or so forth. But I think libraries are an invaluable part of any community.

What bothers me is I actually did have an incident where people were sharing my events and making homo and transphobic... I'm a transwoman. So people were making comments, and what really bothered me is someone shared my event. And I replied to them because I was notified because it was from my Facebook page. So I don't know why they thought they were being anonymous. And they heavily implied that children weren't safe around me because I'm trans, and that really bothered me. And I politely but firmly responded to them... I don't know, we're living in an era now, like, where bigots are feeling a lot more empowered to speak their mind. So it's a little troubling, but beyond that, in Guelph, I've had nothing but support. So I'm very lucky, but who knows what's down the road?

I mean, at a very base level, it shows kids that you can basically be whoever you want and you can express yourself however you want as long as you aren't harming anyone else. I think what's also good too is I feel like, you know, it makes an impact on queer and trans kids who might not necessarily realise they are queer or trans yet. And I know that I'm a transwoman, but I grew up living as a little boy. And I think as a little boy, seeing someone fierce like myself reading storytime, would've had a big impact on me. It probably would've given me a lot of confidence that there's someone else out there like me, and that it's to be that way.

The Guelph Public Library, their children's programming seems quite excellent, actually. Like, they seem to have a lot of lively stuff going on. I'm quite impressed because I didn't know any about it until I started doing storytime, and I was quite impressed by what they have going on there. They worked very hard and there's always something awesome going on for kids there. My favourite moments actually is...I was just a little bit behind for time one time and when I was doing it, and I was on rush, and I didn't quite put my wig on properly. And so I made a very silly joke to the kids, knowing that they would get it, that this isn't my real hair and that this is a wig. And a little boy chimed in and said, 'Yeah, I know. I can see your hair sticking out the back." I was like, "Oh, shady, remind me to check the back of my neck before I go back out." Thought that was so funny.

Kira: When doing research for this podcast, trying to learn more about the event, I can't tell you how many articles and comments that came across from people who thought the events were trying to indoctrinate kids or push some sort of political agenda. There are many people who are sufficiently angry that this event even exists, and even angrier that it exists in public libraries all across North America. There's this kind of mentality that kids are too impressionable and that they will want to become drag queens as a result of attending this event. And even if that were true, what's wrong with that? Every child should have the chance to explore who they are with help from positive role models. It has nothing to do with sexuality or pushing a liberalist agenda, and everything to do with imagination, diversity, and acceptance.

Elizabeth: And it's true. Sometimes kids don't grow out of what they wanna be. And some of us still wanna be Sailor Moon and are still waiting for that moment when they turn out to be the Moon Princess, but we're just getting off-topic because, I mean, speaking as an adult who does not wanna be Sailor Moon, like I, I can see the political side of things, and whether or not I agree with the arguments. But, like, if I were a kid going, I would just be excited to be there to be read a good story by a talented performer because, I mean, I remember being in elementary school and actually we were read "A Wrinkle in Time," and I hated it. I had hated that book forever until I actually sat down last year and read it again. And it's brilliant. But I had so many years where I just, like, didn't have access to that magic because it was read to me in the most like, "I don't wanna be here." So, I mean, I think what's important to remember is that kids are there to be entertained. And if it's a byproduct of Drag Queen Storytime is tolerance and understanding, then two birds, one stone.

Kira: I'm so glad this program is available, it's what helps to promote not only acceptance, but also diverse books and shows how important it is for the community that libraries actually are. And we were lucky, we had a chance to speak with Michelle Arbuckle about the importance of the library and community engagement programs like Drag Queen Story Hour. Michelle is the Director of Member Engagement and Education at the Ontario Library Association or OLA. In the case you're unfamiliar, is the oldest and largest continually operating nonprofit library association in Canada. According to the website, they provide the chance for library, staff, and supporters to share experience and expertise while creating innovative solutions in a consistently changing environment. They offer opportunities for learning, networking, recognising, influencing, and celebrating within the library world. And they hold an amazing super conference, and there are so many authors and books, and you get to talk to people, and it's lovely. And, yes, I love it. It's my favourite event of the year. You're the Director of Member Engagement at OLA?

Michelle: I am the Director of Education and Member Engagement. Yes.

Kira: Awesome. So what does that entail exactly?

Michelle: It entails a lot. I mean, I kind of cover a number of different portfolios. So I cover off membership, which is just like reaching out to people who work in libraries across the province, and I say people who work in libraries because we're not just librarians. So there are people who work in libraries who are library technicians. We also have library trustees and CEOs as part of our membership. So I work with all of those people, and also with students in library schools. And then the education part is a pretty massive part because, obviously, we do the OLA super conference, which happens at the end of January. We take about six weeks off in-between conferences, but it's kind of a year-round initiative that's just always happening. And then we have 12 events throughout the year, little conferences that we do. So we just had one this week, which was our marketing libraries conference. And each of those gets between 100 and 200 people and there's, you know, always things going on with that.

Kira: Well, that sounds awesome. So how did you get to this position? Were you a librarian before or... Yeah.

Michelle: Yeah. So, after library school, I went right into special libraries. So I was actually working in a hospital. I was at Princess Margaret Hospital. And I was there for about five years. I was a patient librarian. And then from there, my undergrad is in music, I went on to be the national librarian for the Canadian Music Centre, which is a nonprofit that works with Canadian classical composers. And I worked with them for about the same amount of time. During that time, I got on the OLA board, and I was part of their technology division. And that's like a volunteer gig. You sit on the board, you know, you attend board meetings, you help with kind of strategic direction and that kind of thing.

And one of the first things that came up, I think it was my second board meeting, was that they wanted to hire someone in for education. And I'm sitting in that meeting thinking, "Is this a conflict of interest? Because I really wanna do this. Like, I wanna do this all the time and get paid for it." So I let them know right away after that meeting. I'm like, "Listen, I'm willing to drop out. Can you put me on the salary?" So, anyway, I had to go through the whole process, obviously. And now, I've been there for almost eight years.

Kira: Cool. And we found an article about Drag Queen Storytime, and we saw a picture of you in attendance, and that's how we chose you for this conference because...

Michelle: Honoured.

Kira: ...we're trying to talk more about how libraries are so important to the community in different community outreach programs that are available. So, can you tell me more about Drag Queen Storytime and what that meant to you?

Michelle: Sure. So my daughter, Simone, who is turning 6 in a couple weeks, she is not...I mean I'm making sweeping generalisations about a 6-year-old, but she's not really cerebral yet. Like, she's not automatically a library kid, which hurts my heart deeply. So I try to kind of push her into libraries, every chance I get, which is probably gonna, you know, work against me at some point. But I'm always trying to bring her to fun branches and do fun things that aren't just, you know, book-related. And from a librarian perspective, I know there are a number of things that libraries do that aren't just book-related. So it was in December of this past year that Jones Library, which is quite near us in Leslieville, Toronto.

Kira: Oh, me as well. Yeah, I live in the exact same area.

Michelle: So they were promoting a Drag Queen Storytime that they were doing for New Year's Eve. So it was just before New Year's Eve, and, obviously, they're not open on New Year's Eve, I wish. But it was like a kid's party. They were gonna have drag queens there, they were gonna do a countdown. And I was just really into that vibe of bringing out the kids in and seeing the drag queens. I love drag queens. And I knew that, you know, any 6-year-old girl worth her salt is into wigs and costumes and pretend. And so I knew that she'd be into it. Mind you, it was total chaos in there. I mean, shout out to the Jones Library staff because they handled it beautifully. But the library was...you crushed into that place and it was...

Kira: It's a small library again with...yeah.

Michelle: Yeah, and it was super, like, snowy and gloopy outside. And everyone was just like tromping in there with wet boots. But the drag queens, and they were fantastic. They kind of split them up at two ends of the library, and they each did a storytime with a group of kids. And they read stories, I can't remember the exact titles, but it was like, you know, free to be you and me. It was very like you can be whoever you are, beautiful is beautiful. You know, no matter what you look like, you have a family. And so it was very, like, inclusive. There were a number of LGBT families there and a lot of friends of mine, same-sex couples with kids were there. And so it was just a wonderful vibe. It was too crazy to do the countdown in the end. Like, everyone was just like 3, 2, 1, yeah.

Kira: Oh, is it the New Year already?

Michelle: Yeah. But she had a great time. It was her first drag queen experience. And so when we got in, she's kind of looking around very suspiciously, and she's like, "Mommy, I think that's a boy," just looking at the drag queen. I was like, "Yeah, maybe it is, totally, sure." I'm like, "You know, he's all dressed up. It's called a drag queen. You know, now, she's wearing a dress, and she's got a cool new name, and this is...you know, she does this on stage, and she entertains everyone, and it's really cool and fun." And by the end, she was loving it.

Kira: That's amazing. I found it, like, interesting. I talked to Athena McQueen this morning, and both of you mentioned like not really being able to remember what books were read, but you remember the atmosphere of the thing. And I think that's like mostly what it's all about. It's like a performance that's meant to engage kids. It's not so much about the books. It's about like acceptance and presenting this kind of thing to a young audience, which is really cool. What do you think the events like this, not just Drag Queen Storytime, offer to the community? Why do you think they're so important?

Michelle: Well, like I said, a number of my best friends, my neighbours are same-sex couples. And I just had this conversation the other day with my neighbour that her and her wife have a daughter who is 2. And she was like, "You know, I feel so terrible because we don't have any same-sex friends with kids." All their same-sex friends are single or don't have children. And she was really looking to make those kinds of connections. And it was the perfect place to do that. Like, she met another...a couple gentleman who had a kid around the same age, and now they're getting together for playtimes. And it's just such a great...you know, it really is a great community hub. No matter what your event, it brings those like-minded people together. It allows them to make connections and then go outside the library and continue those connections, you know?

Kira: Yeah. I think, like, the library isn't necessarily the place that you would think that this would happen, but it's also the perfect place that you think that this kind of event would happen. It's amazing.

Michelle: You know, there's nothing happening there that's requiring you to buy anything. There's no like capitalist angle to it.

Kira: Exactly.

Michelle: So, for families and...like Leslieville has a ton of low-income families where that would be a major hindrance. So, if you had it like...you know, no offence to Starbucks, but if you had it at a Starbucks or a bookstore, there's like that kind of pressure of, "Okay, what do I have to buy to justify me being here and receiving this program for free?"

Kira: Yeah. Like, lots of bookstore events are like, "Please show your receipt for your book that you purchased so you can participate in the event," which is... Yeah.

Michelle: Or even...you know, I know a lot of independent bookstores that are doing great programs. Queen Books is doing great stuff. But then there's also that like, "And all of the books we're showing today are also for sales." So, you know, like, there's just not that angle in a library at all. It's just, "You're the community. Yay, you're here. Have a great time. See you later."

Kira: And they like takes the pressure off of everyone.

Michelle: Absolutely.

Kira: Like, everyone's there to have like a fun time.

Michelle: Yeah. Like, the most sales pitchy thing that'll happen to you is, "Hey, do you want a library card?" That's not a big deal.

Kira: You want these things, you can get free access to books.

Michelle: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Kira: Yeah, exactly. So what are your favourite stories about being a librarian since you were a librarian before?

Michelle: Oh, man.

Kira: Do you have any like war stories, or even just your favourite like happy contribution?

Michelle: My first gig was in a hospital libraries, cancer library, with patients. You know, it's not necessarily always the happiest place. It was a place where families would come when they were looking to research a loved one's cancer, usually not the patient themselves because by that point, the patient was kind of...they'd had it up to here with cancer. But there are...for example, at Princess Margaret, whenever someone finishes their last chemo, they ring a bell and everybody cheers. You know, there's happy moments like that, and where the library can participate and celebrate people who are hopefully finished with that, you know, journey. But one of my favourite, I really like interacting with young people that are coming in at the Canadian Music Centre, you know, just kids coming in that have no idea. We would have doors open events and...what's the one that happens like all night long?

Kira: Nuit Blanche.

Michelle: Yes, we did a Nuit Blanche, where we had a couple of performers, and you could come in and just pull any score off of the shelf and they would just perform it on demand, which was great and super cool. And it got, you know...I call them kids as I'm ancient now, all the kids coming in and looking at scores in different ways of how people write music. And that was, you know, always fascinating because the way that composers write music in the 20th century is much different than looking at like a Mozart score. Like, you know, a music staff could like go into this big drawing that you have to basically interpret into music. It's very wild. I blame drugs. But know that I really like just kind of exposing kids to libraries in ways that they don't expect. And music is a really good way to do that. And, you know, things like this, like Drag Queen Storytime who expects to walk into a library and see, you know, a giant drag queen...

Kira: Exactly

Michelle: ...doing a story.

Kira: I think what we're trying to mostly do with this podcast is just show people all of the things that libraries are apart from books. Like, books are important, but they're just like one piece of the, like, huge puzzle. Like, you can get anything from a library essentially.

Michelle: And that's the coolest part of my job now is I get to work with libraries across the province and also across the country in different capacities. And so I get to see all the amazing things that they're doing well...or sorry, Vaughn Public Library right now is building a commuter library. So it's right outside Vaughn, the new subway station up there. And one of the things that's going to be included in the library is like a kitchen, like a public community kitchen. And they're planning to do cooking lessons in there and demos. And probably, I don't know, but I'm assuming like a whole cookbook collection. And it's just such a cool idea. First of all, I love commuter libraries. There's one apparently in Porter...the island airport here in Toronto...

Kira: Oh, yeah. I heard about that. Yeah.

Michelle: ...which I've not seen, but I heard about it. And, you know, it's one of those things you always think about when you're travelling, you go to an airport, you're like, "Oh, I gotta grab a magazine or a book before I get on the plane."

Kira: Every single time in my entire life.

Michelle: Every time.

Kira: I'm like, "Oh, this traffic is terrible. I wish I had a magazine.

Michelle: Let me grab a crappy "People" magazine, you know, like, or even I just like to go into the...I don't even know what the name of the store is, where they sell the books, but, you know, just looking at all the trade paperbacks that are out in the covers. If there was a library, though, there that you could easily get something out of, and then upon return, just drop off, you know, in the terminal, that would be amazing. That would cover so many needs and save my bank account from all these needless airport expenditures.

Kira: I know on my street, we have one of those like little free libraries, someone just has it outside of their house. I hate the name little free library because like all libraries are free. But it's really great. I'm like walking the dog to the park, and I look in there, and I'm like, "Ooh, what new book can I read at the park today?" And then I just kind of like skim through it if usually, they're, like, nonfiction so I can skim it and then just drop it off or drop another book off on my way back home. And it's amazing. I love that. Like, libraries are like steeping out into the real world.

Michelle: I know. It's really cool. And, you know, that's kind of like...that's interesting that you mentioned that because those on-demand library services essentially become book boxes. That's really what they are, right? It's a little free book box. But think about, you know, how librarians could be used in like an airport setting, for example. You're going somewhere. You need somebody to help you quickly research something or figure out when you land, where you can, you know, convert your money or...like, there's just so many opportunities, I think, to help people with problems they're having in airports that are being addressed by airport staff.

Kira: Because they have too many, like, other things to worry about.

Michelle: I mean, come on, like...

Kira: There's an idea to pitch.

Michelle: TPL, get on an airport librarian role, call me.

Kira: TPL's like super innovative. They're like writing a book on Twitter, which is amazing. And then they have like their, like, storytime hotline. It's like lots of just really interesting things that you would never expect from a library, which I have learned so much like doing research for this podcast, and I just wanna do like a library tour of Canada now.

Michelle: You absolutely should do that. I mean, people working in libraries, TPL has got some amazing talent in the past couple of years. And yeah, it just shows with all the innovative work that they're doing. They're working now with, like, sidewalk labs for the smart city stuff and working collaboratively on that. And, you know, just all of these different initiatives that are happening in this city, the library is infiltrating all of them. And it's amazing. It's the best thing that could happen.

Kira: And I've noticed that there's been more stories on social media about things that libraries are doing. I'm not sure if I just notice them now because I'm working in publishing, or if it's because it's actually becoming more of like a trend on social media. But it's exciting.

Michelle: I think they're definitely learning how to leverage social media to tell their stories, which is a great thing.

Kira: I think libraries are like staying modern in a way that people don't expect, which I think is really exciting. Like, Drag Queen Storytime, they're staying relevant. They're not...like, I don't know. Lots of people I think when they think of libraries, they just remember going to the library as a kid and at school, and they go check out their required reading books, that kind of thing. But it's so much more,

Michelle: It's true. It's my all-time pet peeve. Whenever we hire a speaker, I put it into their contract that they're not allowed to tell stories of going to the library as a kid. I despise it because surely, the last time you went to a library, wasn't when you were a kid.

Kira: Exactly. And they've changed so much, and we just like gotta get away from the idea, though. It's only like a thing for children, first of all.

Michelle: And also the thing that it's a building that you visit. I mean, I don't want to denigrate the buildings themselves because they're beautiful and they're great and the new facilities are amazing, the thinking that's going into how you design a space. But the resources that you use online are almost just as important. I mean, I haven't checked out a magazine from a library, but I have about 12 magazines per month that I check out through, you know, their e-magazines portal. And that is a huge savings for me as a person.

Kira: Exactly.

Michelle: And a huge service that they're doing to me, it's also something I know only use their audiobook collection. I just borrow through them instead of using audible or, you know, something like that. So, yeah, I think when people talk about not using the library as an adult, sometimes they're forgetting about the different ways they use a library that are kind of like just seamlessly integrating into their lives.

Kira: The OverDrive is now available on Kobo. So, like, people with e-readers can now...they don't even have to buy books anywhere. They can just rent them straight from OverDrive, which is amazing.

Michelle: Yeah. Absolutely.

Kira: All right. So the big, big question that Elizabeth had to ask you because she's on vacation now, but she wanted to know how you read so much?

Michelle: Does she think I read a lot?

Kira: She does. Yeah.

Michelle: Well, let me tell you a story. I smashed into a light post the other day, reading, walking down the street. So it's a glamorous life. Yeah, no, I try to sneak it in as much as I can, but I'm also fully willing to abandon a read that I hate or that I just can't get into.

Kira: Yeah. I think that's important. Like, people shouldn't have to force themselves to get into a book if they're not into it.

Michelle: No, I apologise to Elena Ferrante, but I can't do it. I gave up. I did read the first book and a half, but I just can't finish it. I need to recognise what's not for me and move on, which is also the beauty of the library that you can do. You can just be like, "Oh, I didn't like this and I didn't waste any money buying that."

Kira: Exactly.

Michelle: Yes. And, yeah, so I sneak it in where I can on commutes on...my husband will yell at me, but I try to even read sometimes during dinner, or I've now trained my daughter that when it's storytime, she's gonna read her book and mommy's gonna read her book. So we're just like independently lying next to each other reading our own things.

Kira: And do you find titles to read just browsing the library or?

Michelle: I have a lot of friends in publishing...

Kira: Exactly. Yeah.

Michelle: ...and at conferences. And so I'm constantly looking at their list. I constantly look at the Loan Stars list and suggestions from people, publishers, and some from friends and Bookstagram, that kind of thing.

Kira: Bookstagram. Yeah. I find this like industry is really overwhelming to work in because I'm like, "I wanna read everything." And you cannot read everything, but you can try, which is really hard.

Michelle: I purchased three books before my vacation at the beginning of August, the Parker Posey book, the Guy Branum book, and... Oh, I can never remember how to pronounce the author's name, but she wrote that we need to talk about race. And I was like, "I'm gonna read all of these on my vacation." I didn't crack a single one because all my holds came in at once. Right? I had seven holds come in that same week. And I think I read three books on that one week of vacation.

Kira: I think my book habits have been wearing off my boyfriend because we went on a weekend vacation, and he brought a David Foster Wallace book and two books by Haruki Murakami. I'm like...

Michelle: "That is never gonna happen."

Kira: ..."You aren't even gonna finish the David Foster Wallace book." I'm like...

Michelle: You cannot read two Haruki Murakami books and turn back. I think your brain would explode.

Kira: I was like, "You are"... that's the most ambitious like...

Michelle: Honestly.

Kira: ...backpack of reading I've ever seen in my life, but he's trying.

Michelle: That's like three four-course meals, one after the other, you would explode at the end. There's no way.

Kira: Thank you so much for joining us. You're an incredible person to talk to on the podcast...

Michelle: Thanks for having me.

Kira: ...probably because you have your own practice and your own podcast, but...

Michelle: Shout to "Library Land Loves."

Kira: Yes, of course, it's amazing. You should listen to it immediately after finishing this podcast.

Michelle: Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Elizabeth: A big thank you to, Michelle, for joining us. Michelle also hosts the OLA podcast, "Library Land Loves," which is amazing, and you should definitely listen to after this. I'd like to take a second to share some of the things we have going on at BookNet and not to be too pitchy. Some of the things that we have concerning libraries, I mentioned Loan Stars, which non-library staffers can actually access all of ourpast picks on our website, loanstars.ca. You can also go on our Goodreads wall. We have them all organised by month. And you can see actually every month they're published both in "Quill & Quire" and in the "Toronto Star." "Toronto Star" is now actually including reviews from library staff, and they are short, amazing, and, like, this is not good for my reading list. Like, so many things.

And if you are a librarian and you don't know what Loan Stars is, you can learn all about it on our website, or you can contact us at loanstars@booknetcanada.ca. Always happy to hear from you. And we are actually working on our own library circulation checker, and it's not just a dream of mine. It's apparently a dream of many people, but it really is like Christmas has come to the office, and I'm so excited. And we are continuing to develop our library data service. Yeah, library data. It's gonna be big.

Kira: And Monique is here to tell us just a little bit more about that project.

Monique: Hi, I'm Monique. I am the Project Manager for the library data project here at BookNet. And so what we are working on building is a reporting system, similar to sales data, which some people may be familiar with, which tracks the library circulation of books across Canada. So we're gonna be tracking the loans, holds, and renewals of books, as well as copies on order so librarians can get a sense of how their collection is performing and also compare their own libraries' performance to other libraries across Canada and groups of libraries. So you could compare yourself against all the libraries in your province or all the libraries in urban or rural areas. You can kind of see how you stack up against similar libraries, how you might want to grow your collection compared to collections at other libraries in the country, and kind of just get a better sense overall of how books are performing in libraries and kind of jump on trends early in case there are certain subject areas or groups of subjects that are performing well in your library or in your area that maybe you didn't know about before.

Kira: Thanks so much for that, Monique, and also thanks to, Maya Hicks, Michelle Arbuckle, and Elizabeth for joining us on the podcast this month. We gratefully acknowledge the financial support of the government of Canada through the Canada Book Fund for this project. And as always, thanks to you for listening.

Podcast: More than just books – Why libraries should not be overlooked

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