Last month we shared highlights from Tech Forum 2021. This month we’re sharing one thought-provoking panel in particular. The idea for this panel was inspired by an essay from Annahid Dashtgard a renowned author, changemaker, and co-founder of Anima Leadership, a boutique consulting company specializing in issues of diversity, inclusion, and anti-racism. This essay, called Foreign Object in the House of Canadian Literature, was about her experience as an author of colour and her reception in Canadian publishing. Annahid was joined by Chelene Knight and Léonicka Valcius to discuss author care and creating safe spaces for BIPOC authors.

(Scroll down for a transcript of the podcast.)

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Further reading/listening

Transcript

Ainsley Sparkes: Welcome to this month’s episode of The BookNet Canada Podcast. I’m your host, Ainsley Sparkes, the Marketing & Communications Manager at BookNet.

In last month’s podcast episode, we shared with you highlights of many of the Tech Forum 2021 sessions. We wanted to do a whole episode devoted to this particular session though, Foreign object in the house of Canadian literature. It was one of our sessions with the most engaged audience.

The idea for this panel was inspired by an essay from Annahid Dashtgard a renowned author, changemaker, and co-founder of Anima Leadership, a boutique consulting company specializing in issues of diversity, inclusion, and anti-racism. This essay, also called Foreign Object in the House of Canadian Literature, was about her experience as an author of colour and her reception in Canadian publishing. If you haven’t read it already, we’ve put the link in the show notes and we highly recommend reading it.

Annahid was joined in this panel by Chelene Knight, an author, literary agent, and CEO of her own literary studio, Breathing Space Creative, and Léonicka Valcius a literary agent at Transatlantic Agency, the founder of #DiverseCanLit, and the former Chair of The Festival of Literary Diversity. The conversation that ensued was an important, nuanced, and solution-based look at how the publishing industry cares for authors who share difficult truths in their work. They touched on how to create space and safety for people, especially writers, who, for a variety of reasons, have not been welcome in Canadian publishing. People who, as Dashtgard writes in her essay, “are wooed for the colour [they] represent, but [who] don’t yet belong.”

Léonicka Valcius: Annahid, I'd like to start with you. In the time since that book tour, the one you wrote about in your piece, that left such a sour taste in your mouth, what has your experience been as a racialized author?

Annahid Dashtgard: Yeah it's a good question. You know, I come into this conversation wearing a couple of hats: one is as the experience of author which I wrote about in the article, and the other is having the honour of getting to work in different sectors doing diversity and inclusion work. And my sense is, from that latter perspective, that I think the publishing industry is a couple of steps behind where a lot of other industries are at in tackling issues of equity and inclusion, particularly around racial diversity. I think the bench — you know, the motivation has certainly increased because of anti-black racism and the protests and all of that. Like, for many, many sectors and industries.

But to answer your question, I guess you know, it feels important for me to just say that the discrimination and even the manifestation of racism within publishing, I don't think is the overt form. And that's really important to name. In other words, it's good people, well-intentioned people, unconsciously perpetuating what they see and know — what's familiar — and marginalizing the unfamiliar or what is unknown.

And so just the starting point for me in this conversation is and, you know, all of what I described in the article is unintentional, and more impactful in a way because when it's unintentional it can be invisible and it can be hard to talk about or pinpoint. And I think what happened for myself, and I think happens for a lot of other BIPOC authors, is that it's not just one moment in time, it's an accumulation of small moments where you receive a message through, or a signal in relationship with others in the industry. At writers' festivals, on panels, in media interviews, that you're underestimated or you're not treated the same way as your white counterparts. Or you know, you have to work harder to garner the same respect. All these small things that are, again, hard to sort of talk about.

And so I'll finish my opening thing here with one of those micro-moments that happened for me during my book tour, which I referred to in the article. I had at this point traveled to a number of cities and there had been a few different things that had happened and I returned to Toronto and I was invited last minute to go to this glitzy writer's event downtown. I threw on a dress, glammed up, got my hair done, shot downtown and — well, for those in the industry it probably won't be that hard to identify. But, the authors were placed at tables with a number of donors. I was placed at a table where the donors happened to be all white folks.

And because at that point, I was pretty burnt out, the travel, and of course — and this is an important thing to note for many authors that are traveling: it's very hard to make an income just on writing. I don't know, I mean I think the people that are able to do that are few and far between. And so for myself, I actually took chunks of time off my day job where I was not receiving any income to be able to travel on behalf of my book. I made a conscious choice to do that because I wanted to use it as an opportunity to talk about race, trauma, and inclusion. So I was happy to do that, but it was a lot of effort.

And so I went to this event and I had said to the organizer ahead of time “Hey, I'm pretty tired. I just want to know what supports will be in place? I don't want to kind of have to be facilitating conversations with people that are unfamiliar with any of the ideas or concepts talked about in my book. And this person assured me, “Don't worry, you'll be at the table with the president and other folks and you'll be supported. They're thrilled to have you.” And what I found was — you know, I'll just cut to the chase — I actually didn't know who the head of the organization was until three quarters of the way through the evening when they were announced by someone on stage and at this point stood up and waved and then sat back down. And I felt that moment viscerally because I thought if this was a generation ago, and I think this is an easy comparison in a predominantly male dominant publishing industry, and I was a sole female at the table and to sort of be given assurance that the male president is looking forward to having you, and you know you're representing an important issue area and identity and of course you’re going to be … I mean it's flabbergasting that this male president would at no point in time even acknowledge the sole female at the table.

That's how that moment registered for me. It was a) you're in a position of power, b) my role here is as the sole author and additionally I'm a BIPOC author, and not once have you paused to introduce yourself, to say hello, or to position me or my book in this table of folks that are invited. And I felt like I just wanted to melt under the table. I felt so completely, as I've just said, underestimated, disrespected, and completely— and just knowing that if I was a big, important, White name, that would never have happened. And again, that wasn't the only moment. Yeah, I'll just leave it at that, as a micro moment that happened.

Léonicka: I just want to say that's not a micro moment, Annahid, that is very discouraging to say the least. And a minimizing way to feel at a place that we're supposed to be honoured, right? If this event is similar to events I've been to, they often frame the authors as guests of honour. And that the author at the table is supposed to be — like when those tables are sold to sponsors is “You get to sit with such and such author!” But you're not treated that way. You weren't treated as the guest of honour that you are.

I'd like to flip it over to you Chelene, and to talk a little bit about your experiences as an author and then also your experiences as a publishing professional, but with the idea of the role of the author in the process. And the power an author, a racialized author, specifically, minority authors, people who are queer, people who are disabled, people who are from religious minorities, how they are given agency or how agencies withheld from them. Because I have thoughts but I want to hear yours first.

Chelene Knight: I think, you know, for me, it really — like we have to rewind and we have to go back to this notion of transparency. What assumptions do we make when we're putting these authors into these positions to then have to be showcased? And also are expected to perform in a particular way. So I think we have to think about transparency in that we need to first provide these authors with an explanation of what's going to unfold, or what they think will unfold. I know if I'm going to be placed in a social situation, something you know glitzy and glamorous, fair enough, but if I'm coming from a panel where I've just discussed the innermost traumatic childhood experiences that I document in my book, is there going to be a space in between that panel and then this social environment where I can kind of just one, reflect with myself and figure out how that went for me? Can I make a list of the things that I would love to have had during that panel or post panel? Like I think we need to first offer that transparency. “Here's how this event is going to go,” that's an opportunity for the author to kind of step in and say, “well, hmm actually I would need, you know, a half an hour in between these things to be able to do this right.” So there needs to be an entry point into that conversation, I think. And it shouldn't be up to the author to have to instigate that, right? So for a festival organizer, if we're, you know, planning something and we're going to be putting these authors into these situations, we really have to think about what the variables are. And there's never going to be one big solution that we can just insert. We really have to treat it as a case-by-case thing.

So, you know, like Annahid mentioned, what if the author is just, you know, coming off the plane? You know, they've just arrived. Are they going to be thrust into being put on stage? Is there a moment to eat? Is there a moment to have a glass of water? Like these basic things. They're so important, but they build up. And they matter.

We can rewind even further and think about funding. So how do these festivals get the money to put these events on? What information is being offered to the funders? Are we talking about author care at that level, at that point? And having been on many granting juries, these are the conversations that I bring up and I'm often met with looks of “Author care? Well, what's that?” Like, we don't want to talk about that, we want to talk about what the event is and who's going to be there. But if we're going to be funding these events and these festivals and these fantastic conferences that we all love, we have to think about what space is being made for the authors to do the work at their best.

So all these little variables, there are just so many things, but it really comes down to transparency and just trying your best, I think, as an organizer to prepare the author. And I think that can be done on the publishing side as well. Like when we're signing authors, we're bringing them into our publishing home, what information are we giving them about the life cycle of this book? What's to be expected once that book is out there in the universe? What's going to happen then? And again it's all these different variables because there will not be a one size fits all solution to offer.

So, I have so many experiences that I can bring to the table, and having been a festival organizer and being brand new to it, having no template to work from and saying, “Okay, I'm gonna build this thing.” I have a lot of help, but there are just so many things that we missed there are so many things that we did wrong, but I think it's that idea of going back to the table, having conversations, discussing all of the things that went wrong and trying to come up with new ways to approach it. I think that's where the change starts. It's that idea of acknowledging and then going back and trying to figure out you know what can we do to grow as an organization? But also, what can we do to make sure these things don't continue to happen?

Ainsley: That clip was from the beginning of the panel, the whole conversation was so insightful and important, that, as I mentioned, it spurred a lot of discussion from the audience. The number of questions from attendees far exceeded the amount of space that our panelists had time to answer. But luckily for all of us, Léonicka was interested in taking some of those surplus questions and answering them on her Instagram account. We’ll share one of these now, but you’ll have to follow Léonicka on Instagram for the rest.

Léonicka: Hi everyone! My name is Léonicka Valcius. I recently did a TechForum panel for BookNet Canada and I’m happy to answer some of the leftover questions from that panel here. If you have more questions that you want me to answer via IGTV, please leave them in the comments and I’ll answer them when I have time.

So, this person asks, “When it comes to author care, how can we shift the phrase ‘managing expectations’ into something better? Something that doesn’t imply the author’s expectations are a risk?”

I totally agree that managing expectation is a loaded phrase. The unspoken assumption is that authors don’t know anything about the industry and their desires are unreasonable. Both of those things are resolved by frequent and consistent communication.

Instead of “managing expectations” I like to “discuss the working relationship.” I do this throughout my relationship with my clients but most importantly before we agree together so that everything is clear before a contract is signed.

In these types of conversations there are key things to cover:

What does success look like? The author, and every publishing professional they’re working with, have to be working toward the same goals or there will automatically be a disconnect in the process. If the parties involved can’t agree on the goal they should not be working together.
What is each party willing or able to contribute? Now, this is the part of the conversation that usually leads to “managing expectations,” but it doesn’t have to. This is where everyone can share what tools, resources, and capacity they actually have and are willing to leverage. So, this is where the marketing team can say “we don’t have the budget for a billboard in Times Square, but we will be running ads in the School Library Journal.” Especially if this makes more sense for the book. This is also where the author has room to say “no, I can not create a TikTok dance challenge, but I can prerecord a three-minute video to share with booksellers”. In short, this is where the formerly adversarial “managing expectations” conversation can shift to become a collaborative cataloguing of tools, skillsets, and resources.
How do we communicate? Now, I think this is the most important part of the project and of the conversation. No team project goes smoothly and goes without any mistakes, and please note: publishing a book is a giant, years-long, team project. So the important aspect of discussing the working relationship is figuring out how to communicate with each other and how to adapt to changes or problems. This is also a great place to set boundaries and manage expectations. For example, you could say “I do not conduct business via social media so please send me an email for work-related matters.” This goes for everybody. Or, express the desired level of communication. So this is where the author could say “please only send me the positive reviews! The negative ones discourage me.” And this is also where agents, or publicists or freelancers, or, again, anyone the author is working with can talk about their decision-making processes, even internally. So for example, something like “if we’re spending over $200 it has to be approved by X person.” So these are ways again that the team can communicate with each other and set the parameters of how things will go. And all of these conversations need to happen frequently because things change! Pandemics happen. People have different capacities at different times. So, again, it’s important to feel like you can adjust and adapt as things change.

The key in all of this is that the author is an equal participant in the process rather than some neophyte who has to be placated or condescended to. With that in mind, it’s much easier for publishing professionals to create a collaborative process that doesn’t consider the author’s expectations a risk to overcome.

I hope that helps!

Ainsley: Thanks again to Annahid Dashtgard, Chelene Knight, and Léonicka Valcius for this fantastic discussion. Please go watch the whole thing on the BookNet Canada YouTube channel.

Before we go, I’d like to take a moment to acknowledge that BookNet Canada staff, board, partners, and our makeshift podcast studio, operate upon the traditional territories of the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation, the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, Wendat, and Huron indigenous peoples, the original nations of this land. We endorse the calls to action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada and support an ongoing shift from gatekeeping to space-making in the book industry. And we hope that our work, including this podcast, helps to create an environment that supports that shift. We'd also like to acknowledge the Government of Canada for their financial support through the Canada Book Fund. And of course, thanks to you for listening.

Podcast: Foreign object in the house of Canadian literature

Further reading/listening

Transcript

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